CHLOE LAZARUS
NEW YORK CITY
Chloe has been farming on farms not her own in PA + NY for 13 years. She is currently a farm manager at a non-profit farm & arts project in New York City.
She started farming in 8th grade at a farm a mile down the road from her house, and continued working there through high school, before moving onto a different farm, and has shifted over the years to pursuing farming as a career rather than summer jobs.
WHAT ARE YOU CURRENTLY DOING? (WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING, ETC)
Right I am the North Regional Farm Manager at Project Eats in New York City. It’s a network of farms around the city and in the Bronx, Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn. I manage the one in Manhattan on Randall’s Island and the Bronx associated with a hospital. The mission of the organization is to provide affordable food, high quality food to community that doesn’t normally have that access. We grow and then sell at a discounted price relative to market price in those same communities. We have a lot of partnerships with housing, apartment complexes, assisted living for low income individuals. We farm in their spaces or nearby and try to gear our production and programming towards what interests them. During Covid we have been distributing a lot of food for free around the city with different partnerships. We only started selling things again since September while also doing the free food. This is my second year there with them.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN FARMING?
I’ve been farming for 13 years. I grew up in Westchester where I started farming. I went to graduate school in Pennsylvania where I farmed in Pittsburgh and outside of Pittsburgh. After that I moved back to New York.
WHAT INITIALLY BROUGHT YOU TO THE FIELDS?
So growing up, my family grew a lot of the food that we ate. We didn’t live on a farm or ag space or one that you would assume was agricultural. We just needed to in some sense, we just really enoyed nature and growing things, and canning and preservation for winter. It’s something I grew up doing and enjoyed. In middle school, I needed a job and needed money, so in 8th grade. I started working at a farm about a mile from my house. I didn’t know it existed. It opened up this whole world for me. I worked there for 4 years before moving to a different farm. I first just really saw it as a job, as an opportunity to be outside in the summer, and that continued through high school. Halfway through college, I realized I liked what I was doing in the summer more than what I was doing in the offseason. That is why I transitioned to seeing it as more than just a job, more as a career path.
I studied food studies in a really great program, which was broader than a lot of food programs out there. It was not just culinary or health, but a holistic view of food. The school has a farm and has classes in farming - social, cultural and historical, medicinal science of food.
It’s a new program, which means there is a lot of input that students have in the curriculum and what you study and focus on.
WHY HAVE YOU CHOSEN TO FARM FOR SOMEONE ELSE (NOW OR IN THE PAST?)
Definitely for financial reasons, not being able to afford land where I want to farm is the major reason right now.
There was definitely a long period of time where I didn’t feel like I was good enough to have my own farm, let alone, manage a farm even though I tended to have more experience than most of the people I worked with. I’m not sure where that come from.
The feeling of not wanting my own farm started as not feeling able to because of skill , not able because of money.
It is a goal for me. This year in particular has made me think about trying to make the transition sooner rather than later.
Where I am now is kind of exacerbated problems for much of my farming experience. I think just with the pandemic it kind of pushed me to my limits in a way that felt really defeated and really undervalued and disrespected by the people I was working for. Wholly unappreciated. It’s really frustrating. I’ve worked in several non-profits and its’s tough to work for people who are not farmers and don’t care to know what that is like. When leadership isn’t really getting it, that impacts the whole organization, you become more of a cog in the systems and not an individual who is putting in so much work. The first farm I worked on was such a community based farm that was so welcoming and totally by farmers for farmers. That is more like the vision that is inspirational to people interested in farming and getting to know farming, and it’s just a better mental mindset than what I’ve been working with recently.
WHAT ARE SOME ISSUES FOR FARMERS WORKING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S FARM - ISSUES THAT YOU'VE WITNESSED OR EXPERIENCED?
Working for hobby farmers or millionaire farmers who have no concept but take all the credit for all your actions is pretty tough. The fakeness or facade of what the organization is versus what it does. Not practicing what they preach in terms of poor labor conditions, not paid sufficiently, not getting sick time, not getting vacation time or holiday pay, no over time, not having accessing bathroom, not having workers comp, anything like that. It’s pretty tough to swallow after awhile. I’ve experience assault, sexual harassment that is definitely not something that was ever sufficiently addressed. I’ve also worked on animal farms and witnessed a lot of animal violence and inhumane actions against animals and nothing happens after reporting it.
Having to fight for access to a bathroom is ridiculous. Having to fight for access to running water, potable water, that is tough. Fighting to buy bandaids, gloves, especially during the pandemic, that should have always been in place.
I think there a very real false allusion within people who consider themselves well-versed on food and are really pro small farms. They think they are some little safe haven and ideal eden and these problems only exists on large mono crop farms like 1000 acre farms in Florida. It hard to communicate to customers, no, it happens to everyone.
CAN YOU TELL ME THE QUALITIES OF A DREAM FARM NOT LEADING TO OWNERSHIP - THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO WORK ON?
I’ve been an advocate for non-hierarchical structures in all aspects of my life. I think cooperative or non-hierarchal farming structures that really promote curiosity, innovation, and experimentation create a more interesting work environment. A new farmhand with two months experience has a voice and is considered when decisions are made. I think transparency is something that is always lacking. If a farm was really honest about financials, goals, about what situations are occurring that are hard or good, that talks to the team rather than just faking it, then I would feel more part of a team and have more loyalty to that system. Also again that would offer so many opportunities for innovation and problems when you bring people together.
Mission wise, I’ve alway really been in support of farms that are not just selling to restaurants or high end consumers, there is already so much of that in supermarkets. Get good food out to people who need it, that’s what is important.
Wages are really important, having a living wage and having covered benefits, getting healthcare that’s not really shitty health care - having all the benefits that you have in non-exempt positions.
I was offered healthcare through my organization (first time I offered healthcare) and it was garbage. Medicaid was better. I’m able to get good insurance through my partner because he works a great job with good healthcare.
Health care has been talked about in my organization and it’s only offered to year round, full time employees, not any of the seasonal farmers. Only two of the farmers are offered that - myself and our director. No one else on my team was offered anything. They barely have the ability to take their sick pay because their seasonal contract is so short.
People do it because they care, which sucks.
“I think there is a very real false illusion within people who consider themselves well-versed on food and are really pro small farms. They think they are some little safe haven and ideal eden, and that these problems only exist on large monocrop farms like 1000 acre farms in Florida. It’s hard to communicate to customers, no, it happens to everyone.”
WHAT KEEPS YOU COMING BACK?
Every year I go through a cycle. This is definitely a low point of the year where everything is “why? This is gross. I’m exhausted. I’m cold, but every year I’m excited about prospects of trying something new. I still get excited about seeding stuff and watching things germinate and transplanting. Seeing the cycle, or getting excited for when arugula in season, tomatoes in season, or the winter squash is ready.
The seasonal cycle is filled with different memories. There is something satisfying about having that as my time table.
I love being outside, that’s a good excuse.
I make sure that I eat well, and a I do a ton of preservation so I eat well through the off season.
I try to envision that the next year will be better with all these complication, but know that at the end of the day there is a lot of farming that I love for what it is.
WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE DIFFERENCE (IF ANY) BETWEEN A FARMER AND A "FARM WORKER"/"FARM EMPLOYEE" BESIDES PROPRIETORSHIP?
I don’t think there should so many different terms because again that creates hierarchy. A lot of why I’ve had a lot of self doubt in my skills and experience is because I was labeled a farm worker or farm hand or seasonal employee. You’re at the bottom, you just do the grunt work. You’re not a farmer, you don’t have the inside scoop, you don’t know the crop plan, you’re left out.
Those terms aren’t inherent to what it needs to be. If you are doing farm work, you are a farmer. If you want to identify as not a farmer and as a gardener, then sure however much you want to buy into the ag title. The title differences are just a way to promote hierarchy and access to skill knowledge, power, and money. It’s not inherent to what a farm needs to run. I don’t use those words with my crew. Even if you’re new or an apprentice - we are all doing the work together, we are all farmers.
DO YOU CALL YOURSELF A FARMER? WHY OR WHY NOT.
I didn’t for awhile. I just avoided it all together. I said that I worked on farms, or that I grew food. I didn’t assign a title for the majority of my experience.
In the past 4 or 5 years, I kind of started to realize that I needed to take pride in what i was doing, despite the looks or condescension of people around me. I decided to be proud of what I was doing, rather than scoot around what it was.
WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WORKING ON FARMS NOT THEIR OWN?
Definitely local groups of farmers getting together. I live in a city and I have tried really hard to connect to other farmers here but it’s definitely different being in an urban setting. I see myself a lot differently than a lot of the farmers here.
The number of times I’ve worked on a farm where we’ve considered unionizing, definitely something supporting that would be helpful.
I’ve leaned a lot more heavily this past year on my extension representatives. I had never reached out, but they a lot stronger in the city. Maybe they have fewer people in their network, but they get to know you and we built a strong partnership, that is really really helpful, especially getting basic resources and getting things done that you can’t afford to like soil testing, etc.
The USDA could be a lot more helpful and a lot less confusing. The only time I was able to connect with them was when I was in Pittsburgh. It was really confusing and not fun. Their definition of farms excluded my work. If all those problems were fixed, they could be a good resource. It was an event, a community farming meetup type thing. They had a table there and I was asking them about starting a farm and the loan process and the different programs that exist. They gave me 7000 pamphlets and a ton of business cards, but every single person was like “I’m not really the expert. I don’t really know about farming in the area.” They had no expertise in what I was looking for and they didn’t suggest anyone who did, so it was sort of helpful but not super helpful.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE ABOUT YOURSELF & YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FARMING? WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT?
Something that I have noticed because of where I went to school and the community that I grew up in and where I find myself now in tetheh city, no one else in my immediate network does anything like what I’m doing. Everyone else is a consultant, analyst or lawyer. I went to a good college and a lot of the times there when people asked “What do you do?” and I said “farming,” it was always met with “Why are you here then? You don’t need to be smart to farm.” So I just think the perspective of non-farmers to farmers shows how deeply ignorant people are about the food system and how distanced people make themselves to their food, pretty intentionally I think.
Being the other in my network has pushed everyone in my network to address it and think more critically about where their food comes from.
It’s hard to be judged and laughed at and called stupid when you know that person has no idea what you do, just like I don’t really know what they do. There should be a mutual respect that doesn’t exist.
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION/TAKE ON THE FARMER LUNCH? (DO YOU TAKE LUNCH, DO YOU SKIP LUNCH, DO YOU ENJOY TAKING LUNCH WITH YOUR CREW - FOR COMMUNITY BUILDING, IS THERE PRESSURE TO BE SOCIAL....)
It’s so different farm to farm. I’ve done group meals where the first farm I worked at, the farm owner lived on the property - 3 generations were living on the property. Every lunch we would go into her kitchen and share everything together. It was really familiar.
Other farms, lunch time was alone time and silence. Everyone sits under their own tree and eats in silence. Some days it’s ok, but I didn’t like that as much. I feel like lunch time is a nice time to see a whole other side of people and it’s nice to eat with people.
Also the timing of lunch is really interesting. I’ve had some bosses who say we have to take lunch at 12pm, no matter what we are doing, drop project and go. A lot of crews would say they would like to finish what they’re doing and take a lunch after
I’m very much in favor of a late lunch.
My current situation is very community feeling. We all sit around a table and talk and hang out. There is a time when we are all just sitting and checking our phones and quiet time. We always break together and start again together. It makes it feel more unified.
I worked on a farm where the boss didn’t eat with us, but the crew ate together. It created a further division between us, therefore we didn’t get to know him in a personal way. He was the figure of the boss and we didn’t get to know him as a person.
Everyone who farms love food. We all like to see what other people are eating and talk about it.
My crew ends for the season on Wednesday and we all work on different sites. Last week was their last week on my farm site. We had a farm Thanksgiving potluck. We definitely took a 2.5 hour lunch and it was great.
