OLIVIA BAXTER-ST.PIERRE
RHODE ISLAND and VERMONT
Olivia grew up working on farms alongside her mother and is currently in law school studying agricultural law, with an emphasis on labor, migrant workers rights, and how laws apply to people who are farming and are not farm owners.
WHAT ARE YOU CURRENTLY DOING? (WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING, ETC)
I’m currently in law school studying agricultural law. My primary focus right now within ag law ultimately concerns land ownership, land equity, seed sovereignty, like how seeds are shared and restrictions on seed sharing. Seed banking is crucial for the future of farming. I also have an emphasis on labor, migrant workers rights, how labor and labor laws apply to people who are farming and are not farm owners.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN FARMING?
I’ve been farming basically my whole life.
My mom is a farmer who is a farmer who does not have her own farm. She has been a a farm for 14 years in a management position, and before that she was in various labor positions at various farms. I grew up going to work with her and helping her. She was a single parent without childcare. I started working on different farms since about age 10, whether paid or not. I’ve done a lot of work on the farm that she is at now, as well as their sister farm.
I worked on the sister farm in the berry fields for three summers, and a little bit of vegetable and potato farming. But I was predominantly in the berry sphere of things.
I’ve also worked on two different flower farms.
WHAT INITIALLY BROUGHT YOU TO THE FIELDS?
I feel like growing up my mom always told me, “You don’t want to farm, it’s hard work. You don’t get paid enough. Do something where you use your brain.” I always felt it was the future of food and our culture, and wanted to be a part of feeding our community. The local food system in Rhode Island is strong and I’m grateful for it. There are a lot of farms contributing to food to table initiatives. The biggest motivator for me was being able to feed my community and doing so in a more sustainable way. When I started my own separate farming away from my mom, I wanted to learn as much as I could on sustainable agriculture, which isn’t something my mom necessarily did.
The whole time my mom was telling me not to do it.
My mom is really proud of me being in law school. She has also come to terms with ag not being something I’m leaving behind. I’m a first generation college student, too. It’s a point of pride that I'm following something I love , but also can support the family for years to come and make change.
WHY HAVE YOU CHOSEN TO FARM FOR SOMEONE ELSE (NOW OR IN THE PAST?)
Out of a desire to get involved with farming. Also from an educational standpoint, I wanted to get involved in ag in whatever way I could. Whatever opportunities arose out of word of mouth (i.e. I need help for X weeks out of the year or I need help on this project), I would kind of jump into it to get my hands dirty and make money and learn about what they were doing to have a broader knowledge of how ag system was working in my community.
In addition to wanting to get my hands dirty, farming for other people was a great way to learn about different sides of farming. If I had just farmed at my mom’s farm, while it’s a really diverse farm based on the crops they grow and flower side of things, I would have gotten a lot of experience, but not nearly the experience with livestock especially, or berries, that I've gotten from other people’s farms.
And also meeting people - farming at other people’s farms is a great way to connect to the network of farmers in your area. If you stay at one farm, you stay with the same crew, but if you branch out and help out with other farm projects, you get to meet more people and connect the dots better.
I still have goals of starting my own farm. Ever since I was little, I always wanted my own farm. My aunt and uncle have a hobby farm and a CSA with veggies, potatoes, dairy cows and raw milk. I’ve always looked at their farm and wanted something like that. Some day I would really like to.
WHAT ARE SOME ISSUES FOR FARMERS WORKING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S FARM - ISSUES THAT YOU'VE WITNESSED OR EXPERIENCED?
There’s a lot of issues. I think the biggest one is that I don’t think people are paid fairly. I grew up in the culture of you have to work hard, and this is what you’re getting paid and don’t complain about it. I fall into the trap of that all the time. People are really not compensated for the amount of back breaking labor that they do in the field and the amount of hours you put in. Looking at my mom who has risen to a management position, she is there 24/7 365, which is stressful. She loves it, but it definitely takes a toll without having breaks. On small farms, there is really not the labor force to take breaks. I’ve also seen on a couple farms that I’ve worked on a whole myriad of issues with people paying overtime. Labor laws say people have to be paid overtime, in Rhode Island at least. My understanding is that people who work in retail are entitled to overtime, but people who are farm laborers are not entitled overtime. With farms around me, well, who is considered retail and who is considered labor? A lot of the farms do have a farm stand or have merch for sale. It becomes this political thing where the employers only have so much income and they don’t want to be shelling out tons of money in overtime. They can’t get the amount of labor that they need, and there are these under the table conversations of paying overtime hours the following week and people feeling like they have to be forced into accepting that for the sake for keeping their jobs. It’s super problematic, and I’ve seen it at more than one farm.
In recent years there have been a lot of young people interested in farming once again, but it’s an ongoing issue to get people interested in farming and keeping people in the profession/occupation. It’s hard work and people find other things to do, I think.
CAN YOU TELL ME THE QUALITIES OF A DREAM FARM NOT LEADING TO OWNERSHIP - THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO WORK ON?
I think a really community driven farm, definitely. A strong community makes the farm. A strong crew that shares meals and has conversations while they are working. Once drama is introduced, it’s no longer fun. A medium sized farm, too. Once it gets too big, it become the stress of keeping up with the farm and seasons with all the tasks that you have to do. A medium sized farm is more manageable for the owner and employees. I personally prefer to work on farms that are more diversified in terms of what they grow and what they raise. I love livestock: goats, goat milk and chickens. I love dairy farms, too, but they can get a lot more complicated to work on. I love berries, too.
On dairy farms, the operations become less about animals and quality of animals and more about maximizing the amount of milk you are able to produce. And also all the equipment complicates things and also once it becomes automated. As much as I love small dairy farming, working on a larger operation would not be for me. It’s stressful and impersonal, where the whole point of farming for me is the community aspect of it. Dairy farming is still feeding the community, but not quite the work environment that I would thrive in.
“I’ve been farming basically my whole life. My mom is a farmer who does not have her own farm. She has been at a farm for 14 years in a management position. Before that she was in labor positions at various farms. I grew up going to work with her and helping her. She was a single parent without childcare.”
WHAT KEEPS YOU COMING BACK?
I don’t really know. I think it’s because I’ve just been doing it for so long. My whole life revolves around agriculture - to the people I know, the food I eat, the way I interact with the world. For me leaving agriculture and leaving a rural or semi-rural environment would be impossible for me. The couple times that I’ve lived away from agriculture, I felt sad to not be able to go outside and get fresh air and work with my hands.
I have a lot of pent up energy all the time, farming and working with my hands is an outlet to help me focus more.
With school, everything is online. I live at home and live with my animals: 8 chickens and a horse. My neighbors have horses, too. Being able to go outside everyday for farm chores helps me center myself for the day ahead and tasks on the computer, which isn’t how I want to spend my day.
The way that farming grounds me, without it I would be a floating ball of manic energy.
WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE DIFFERENCE (IF ANY) BETWEEN A FARMER AND A "FARM WORKER"/"FARM EMPLOYEE" BESIDES PROPRIETORSHIP?
I think at this point in my life, there isn’t really a difference. I have seen how the farm employees are the ones running the farm and keeping it moving.
In the past, there definitely was a distinguishing thing - especially when I was a jaded young farm kid. I’d be working on the farm, doing the farm chores and I would feel like the hardworking person, and I would look at the farm employees who are young and new and slowing down the operation.
I grew up in the farm culture with the changing of the seasons. Sometimes it’s such a rush.
I used to think you had to put in your time to be considered a farmer. For the future of farming, anyone who wants to farm or be a farmer or wants to participate, should.
A beginning farmer with new farm experience is just as valuable as someone who has been farming for 20 years for the future of farm system.
It’s a low paying, high physical demand type of work. They are in it because they want to be here, not for any other reason. People who decide to make the leap and try things for the first time, the people who try working for one season even if it doesn’t stick, you have that experience that you can tell other people about and that might spark a change to get people involved. It can spread awareness of the food system and get people more engaged in their local system.
DO YOU CALL YOURSELF A FARMER? WHY OR WHY NOT.
I did in the past. I don’t right now because I’m in school and not currently farming. Being the daughter of a farmer was a big piece of my identity growing up, and I hope in the future I will once again be a farmer. I’d say I'd consider myself more a homesteader at this point in time. I have no farmable land that I’m working at the moment. I’m in a cold snowy part of Vermont where I have the animals, eggs and goat milk. I’m not farming in the way that I used to.
WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WORKING ON FARMS NOT THEIR OWN?
The biggest thing, which is really hard right now, is a sense of community for people working on farms, especially people new to farming. Especially if you are a first season new farmer and you’ve never done it before, it can feel really overwhelming, especially if working with people who are really seasoned at it. Supervisors aren't always super willing to teach people.
A network or networking events, geographically situated and in-person is ideal, talking over a shared meal. I found a lot of positive experiences being part of a Young Farmers’ Coalition group. For all farm workers, connecting with other farmers is awesome.
I think that there needs to be more awareness of the resources out there for farmers. This is a seasonal position and a low paying one. They qualify for social services, unemployment and other assistance. In our state in Rhode Island, in the past, farmworkers could’t get unemployment benefits for those four months that they were unemployed, and that’s not fair because most people I know don’t have savings for those months. Luckily now, people can more easily access unemployment benefits, but it’s been hard for seasonal workers.
There needs to be job postings for temporary work for those winter months, or if the system could change to support farmers in the off season.
Resources in terms of health insurance. Temporary workers or farmers who have been on the same farms for 5-6 seasons aren’t entitled to health benefits per their employers and may be making too much for Medicaid. A lot of farm workers who are in that middle age range of 30-50 and working 50 hours/week aren’t eligible for Medicaid and can’t afford health insurance and employers aren’t paying for it. They are more likely to get sick.
So three things: greater community building and opportunities to meet each other and share experiences, reform of health care for farm workers since so many are not covered by health insurance, and the last thing I can think of at this moment is unemployment for seasonal workers who are unemployed during winter months when farms shut down.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE ABOUT YOURSELF & YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FARMING? WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT?
The biggest thing for me is just how big farming and ag is to me as a piece of my identity. And I think that for a lot of people that I know and have farmed with and who have farmed for a long time, ag becomes such a huge part of their identity. It’s so much more than an occupation because of that and it’s really powerful. I don’t see myself leaving agriculture anytime soon and I hope that other people once they get started and hooked on it will feel the same way and we can all work together to secure the future of food system.
Some food for thought:
It has been a bit baffling to me since coming to law school to see classmates go to Whole Foods/Trader Joes/etc 50+ miles away to buy “organic” and “healthy” foods at exorbitant prices when there are countless local farms who are struggling to stay afloat in our own community, offering those same products locally at much lower prices.
For example, there are many family dairy farms in my town that offer raw and pasteurized milk products, as well as farm stands that have 24/7 access coolers with fresh beef, lamb, and poultry. The dairy farm that I get my milk from supplies Organic Valley. While a half-gallon of Organic Valley milk will cost around $5 at Whole Foods, if you buy a jug directly from the farm it is only $2.50.
In conversations with my classmates, I have encountered a variety of reasons why they shop the way they do – one that stuck out to me was “local meat freaks me out, because I see those cows out every day when I drive by”. Folks are unaware of the hard work that goes into producing the food that they eat, which in-turn perpetuates a commodification mindset.
Another reason that I’ve heard from folks as to why they prefer to shop at large markets like Whole Food rather than directly from farm stands, or at farmers’ markets, is that there is a misconception that it is more expensive.
I think it is fabulous that there is a growing desire for folks to eat sustainably, but I also believe that often times these conversations focus too heavily on the “organic” label and certain brands, and not enough on the importance of supporting local farms.
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION/TAKE ON THE FARMER LUNCH? (DO YOU TAKE LUNCH, DO YOU SKIP LUNCH, DO YOU ENJOY TAKING LUNCH WITH YOUR CREW - FOR COMMUNITY BUILDING, IS THERE PRESSURE TO BE SOCIAL....)
This depends on which farms that I’ve worked at. Ideally I would love to take lunch and take lunch as a group and on a more young person driven and new farmer driven farm, and flower farms in particular, people do have a culture of taking a break together and eating lunch together
My experience for many years is you don’t eat. You eat while you’re working, like on my mom’s farm. I worked a lot of retail in the summer with my mom, like farm stands. There’s not a ton of people who like that fast paced environment, it gets super busy with all the landscapers and tourists coming in. My mom and I laugh about it all the time, we literally have to duck under the counter and take bites of our sandwich. It’s definitely tough when you’re in more of a retail farm environment than a relaxed community driven cooperative flower farming type of farm. Or even the berry farm, I wouldn't take a lunch break, but there would always be a lull in the day that I could sit on a wagon and eat my lunch in peace. It depends on what type of operation you’re working on and the particular culture.
A lot of older farmers don’t believe in lunch break. You work through it, snack when you can lull or before you pass out. A lot of the more progressive relaxed community driven farms really value community meals and that is an important thing.
The lunch break is the best time of day to get to know your coworkers. I’m a firm believer that sharing a meal is the best way to connect with people. The more we can encourage sit down lunch breaks, the healthier it is. It builds a sense of team work among the crew.