TIA MITSINIKOS
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
note from Tia: “At the time of this interview, I was in the interview process with an organization that builds community gardens in the area. They have since hired me!”
WHAT ARE YOU CURRENTLY DOING? (WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING, ETC)
The two farms that I work on shut down for the winter. They’re covered or growing some food, but there’s not enough work to keep staff on. During the spring through fall I farm, and in the winter I work at one of the ski resorts as a snowboard instructor.
Ski school doesn't pay well. I’m able to sustain myself because I come from privilege. Right now I am losing money, but I have savings. And I know if I needed it, my family would help me.
I have friends who have left farming because they can’t afford to anymore.
One of the farms that I work at is called BUG Farms (Backyard Urban Gardens). The gardens are located in people’s backyards in the neighborhood of Glendale. They let us grow on the land in exchange for vegetables. That farm does a CSA. The other farm is called Keep It Real Vegetables. It’s also backyard gardening and most of those sites are located in other neighborhoods of Salt Lake City. They do market gardening and sell to restaurants. Both of the farms are about one acre each.
At BUG, the owners are a couple and then we had four farm crew members including myself. At the other farm there is the owner and the assistant manager, and then a bunch of people who work with him part time.
This past season, I worked full time at BUG and I would help at the other farm part-time, hopping in when he needed help. The season before that I worked part time at both of them. I’ve worked at these farms for two seasons each.
I’m at a point now where I'm not really willing to do any other work. It all feels exploitative, you know what I mean?
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN FARMING?
I’ve been farming on and off for 5 years. I started in New York before I came here and ever since I moved to Utah I've been working on farms either part-time or full-time. Here in Utah I’ve worked on 3 farms.
WHAT INITIALLY BROUGHT YOU TO THE FIELDS?
After college, I didn't really know what to do. My degree was in biology and I wanted to do something related to sustainability. I was moving to the Hudson Valley and I looked up farms in the area. First I worked on a dairy farm and then on a vegetable farm. That’s how I found my first farm jobs.
WHY HAVE YOU CHOSEN TO FARM FOR SOMEONE ELSE (NOW OR IN THE PAST?)
When I got into farming I knew nothing. So farming for someone else was a way to learn. Operating a farm on my own is more responsibility than I want. It looks hard and stressful and like it takes a long time to feel security in that work. I really like being a farm hand. I wish it paid more, but I know that it's not the fault of my employers, I know that the system is not set up to help farmers.
I would go in on a farming project, but I don't think as an individual I would want to own my farm.
I have this dream where the people I farmed with in the past and I would go in on a farm together and co-own and operate it. I imagine we find a piece of land and everybody puts down on it and then we start growing. There’d be lots of decision making that happens collaboratively.
Even though I’ve been farming for a number of seasons, I don’t feel like I could realistically operate a farm on my own. I don’t know much about crop planning or irrigation. I've been following orders, not making the decisions. Right now the idea of owning my own farm is really intimidating.
The owners of the farms where I work have been really transparent about every aspect of the operation. They are very willing to share. But I have just been content doing what I'm doing. Learning all of that would be empowering because I would feel capable of going out on my own and doing that, but like I said, I’m content. And tired.
WHAT ARE SOME ISSUES FOR FARMERS WORKING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S FARM - ISSUES THAT YOU'VE WITNESSED OR EXPERIENCED?
I feel fortunate that the owners of the farm I work at value our opinion. It’s really nice to be in a work environment where I have influence over the decisions being made. There are a lot of advantages to not owning the farm. I leave at 5, when my bosses farm into the night.
We all know with farming - you don't do it for the money. Urban farming is challenging because you have the city cost of living on farm wages. I know they are giving us as much as they can - they raised prices in order to pay us more. It’s not like they are withholding or hoarding it for themselves, it’s just how it is.
CAN YOU TELL ME THE QUALITIES OF A DREAM FARM NOT LEADING TO OWNERSHIP - THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO WORK ON?
A dream farm would include higher wages, paid time off, benefits. If working on a farm were treated as any other job then it would be more sustainable. Imagine having substitute farmers like there are substitute teachers. So when people need to rest, they can take time off and have paid leave. If you’re not working on a farm, you’re not getting paid.
“I left conservation work because I thought it was such a colonized approach- how can we fix this land we stole? I thought, I gotta get out of here. I came to the farm disillusioned and confused, looking to do something familiar while I figure out what’s next. And then I felt so fulfilled doing it. Something that was meant to be a placeholder became something that I always want to be doing in some capacity.”
WHAT KEEPS YOU COMING BACK?
One of the things that I really love about farming is the community. I love both of the farms I work at and their teams. The people are really great. Given the energy crisis and the climate crisis, I believe this is the best thing we can do for ourselves and the environment: having a localized food system where we are growing regeneratively- cover cropping, rebuilding the soil. 1% of people are involved in food production; that number is going to have to change. We aren’t going to be able to keep shipping food across the country/globe in the coming years.
The joy of being in community and sharing the fruits of our labor is very tangible. We can eat what we are putting our energy towards. I also farm partially for my own climate anxiety. When society shuts down and I can grow food, I got a spot when we are picking teams.
DO YOU CALL YOURSELF A FARMER? WHY OR WHY NOT.
I don’t call myself a farmer. When people ask me what I do, I say I farm. I think that is because of the aforementioned gaps in my knowledge. I don’t feel like I could run a farm by myself. Even if I had a crew, would I know how to do the crop rotations, harvest schedule, etc? I think that is the difference between a farm worker and a farmer - I don't feel comfortable in my ability to run a farm.
If I ask my friends that I farm with whether they call themselves a farmer or farm worker, I think they might have a similar response.
But I can also imagine some of my friends saying, “fuck yeah I’m a farmer, I’m out here doing it.”
WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WORKING ON FARMS NOT THEIR OWN?
It would be helpful if there were more resources to learn those things that I just mentioned, like some kind of education network. Even though my bosses are happy to share what they know, I know they’re working a ton and don’t have the capacity to develop any kind of structured curriculum. And I like structure.
Another thing that would support workers is higher wages - everybody needs it. Inflation is really crazy, wages aren’t going up the same amount. I can’t even wrap my head around what the solution is. If small farms are subsidized the same way industrial agriculture is subsidized, aren't we just putting a bandaid on it? Does it really mean we are valuing food and the labor to grow it more?
A real path to ownership for those who would want it would be supportive for workers. I recently went to this farm and food conference in Cedar City and it was awesome. One of the speakers was this farmer from Quebec, Jean-Martin Fortier, and he said in Quebec, the government offers $20,000 to people starting a farm. He said that this year was the first year they had more farms starting up than shutting down.
Sometimes I think, “what if farming was a government job?” But then I think, “Wait, the government sucks and would probably want to control every aspect of it.” Farming for your community should be seen as essential. The vegetables we’re growing shouldn’t be considered “specialty crops.”
ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE ABOUT YOURSELF & YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FARMING? WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT?
I think about food security in the face of the climate crisis a lot. Lots of people don’t even know that soil is being stripped in many places and that we may be on the brink of a food crisis. I also think there is some kind of magic to growing food. It’s probably because no matter where you or your ancestors came from, everybody has an agricultural history. That is how humans got to be anywhere - through food. Farming feels right.
I also think about Landback and question if it’s possible to feel right about buying land to farm on when it’s all stolen.
I left conservation work because I thought it was such a colonized approach- how can we fix this land we stole? I thought, I gotta get out of here. I came to the farm disillusioned and confused, looking to do something familiar while I figure out what’s next. And then I felt so fulfilled doing it. Something that was meant to be a placeholder became something that I always want to be doing in some capacity. I know farming has been healing for my coworkers as well.
The support that I get from my friends on the farm, we joke that it’s free therapy. We talk all day, all day. I really value working with people who share similar values with me and who I can share with and not have to explain myself, have them meet me where I'm at. They are my farm family. Everyone I’ve farmed with is someone I could call if I was stuck on the side of the road.
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION/TAKE ON THE FARMER LUNCH? (DO YOU TAKE LUNCH, DO YOU SKIP LUNCH, DO YOU ENJOY TAKING LUNCH WITH YOUR CREW - FOR COMMUNITY BUILDING, IS THERE PRESSURE TO BE SOCIAL....)
Every Monday, the owners of the farm would cook lunch for us. One of the owners is a chef. He went to culinary school. That means, once a week we are getting nice, nice food. We all sit together and eat. Everybody looks forward to farm lunch.
At another farm I worked at in Poughkeepsie, we had something called “lunch club”. Each person would take a turn bringing lunch in for everybody. We never had to bring lunch. I really liked that but sometimes it was kinda stressful because farmers are hungry! It was usually made with our own produce.
I brought that to another farm and once a week a crew member would bring in food. It was great sharing a meal that we made with the produce we grew. Even if we weren’t bringing in food for everyone we usually ate lunch together.
We each got a CSA share and unlimited seconds too. When we were packing shares, we packed a share for ourselves. The farm had add ons, too - bread, eggs and mushrooms and fruit from other farms in Utah and we got all the add ons too. I rarely spend money on food.
